Obasanjo Must Not Get Another Term

Kaduna-based multimillionaire businessman, Chief Sunny Okogwu, the Ojise of Asaba and in-law of former military president, Gen. Ibrahim Babangida. Okogwu, once claimed that President Olusegun Obasanjo had in 1999 entered into a pact with the military and the then leadership of the three political parties to run for only one term. According to Okogwu, aspects of the "Executive Agreement" stipulated that Obasanjo would serve only a term of four years in office, with severe consequences should there be breach of the contract.

The report had drawn varied reactions from across the country with the Presidency and the military authorities denying the existence of the said pact. The National Assembly too had debated the claim and dismissed it as spurious, arguing that if there was such a document then its provisions were null and void in the democratic dispensation. For Okogwu, state security agents in Kaduna had swooped on him, demanding the source of his information.

But almost two years on, and with the president launching an elaborate campaign machinery for re-election in 2003, Okogwu still insists that Obasanjo will not re-contest the Presidency and describes the bid as "threading the suicidal path." In this interview with Agaju Madugba in Kaduna, Okogwu, who is also president of the Blackgold Organisation, describes himself as an "indoor politician" saying that Obasanjo's insistence on seeking a second term in office may trigger a "revolution" which in Okogwu's words, was desirable anyway because bloodshed was inevitable if the nation must attain stability in its democracy.

From all indications, the president is set to seek re-election in 2003, do you still hold your earlier position that he cannot run?

I stand by what I said. You can see the signals coming. The nation is about to slide into anarchy. Trouble started coming from everywhere the moment Obasanjo declared his intention to run for a second term. If you recall, his party, the PDP (Peoples Democratic Party) had said Obasanjo's declaration was his private affair and that he would require the party's nomination. You can see that uncontrolled quest of the president to impose himself for a second term without clearance from his party. Obasanjo cannot run in 2003. It goes back to the Executive Agreement. He cannot run.

But the PDP is expected to hold its primaries for the presidential race and candidates, including Obasanjo, would be free to contest the ticket?

Did Obasanjo wait for that? He should have waited. He should have obtained permission from the party. The party said it did not authorise Obasanjo to make that declaration. That is why there are factions in the PDP today and the problem has extended to the National Assembly. You have problems in the PDP now because Obasanjo declared his intention to go for a second term. I warned him. I told him that if he dares make the mistake of looking for a second term, this is what will happen. But he did not bother to listen. The worst is coming and I know what will happen. If Obasanjo insists that he will continue, he will wake up one day and abandon the position. If he does that, the military law will catch up with him because he is also the Commander-in-Chief of the armed Forces. If Obasanjo insists on a second term, he will tear his own birth certificate himself.

You said Obasanjo will abandon the job and resign in the course of a second term in office?

Resignation is a minor word. You have seen what is happening already. In military parlance, abandoning the post is desertion. Obasanjo will become tired of the job, he will become confused and he will be tired of the people. He will get up one day and say, to hell, I am going back to Otta farm. But he will not arrive there safely.

What if Nigerians decide that Obasanjo should go for a second term?

That is, if he has a platform under which he can run for a second term. Yes, if he has a platform, some Nigerians will vote for hi. But if he does not have a platform he cannot run because there is no room for independent candidacy. You must belong to a party.

You still tend to hinge your position on that pact or the Executive Agreement you said Obasanjo entered into before being sworn-in in 1999. Nigerians would be interested in a documentary evidence of the agreement.

What is holding you (the press) from investigating my claim? Is it not proper for you to go and investigate when nobody agrees to bring out the document. The press is able to investigate the amount of money some people have in secret accounts, why is it that you people cannot unravel this one. During the public sitting of the Oputa panel, we saw all kinds of documents flying here and there. Why can't you dig out this one. You want me to do that? No. My duty is to caution Nigerians and I have done it and thank God I did not do wrong.

Is it realistic to impeach the president at this time?

It is possible although it was delayed. The law must be obeyed and it must apply to everybody no matter how highly placed. There should not be third party interference in this business. Those who made the law knows it. We are watching and we want to see the end of it so that the historical records will be put in proper perspective. The process must be conclusive. If you abort it midway, that is undemocratic. There has been a progressive accumulation of misconduct on the part of the president. Why did they delay the impeachment till now? We are talking about 17 forms of misconduct.

You must have some credit for the Obasanjo government?

Government has recorded big achievements and I have always said it. Government has done so well that they are now overdoing it. Government was given the assignment to keep us intact and make us safe and comfortable. They have succeeded in doing that but in the process they diverted and derailed. That is why we have problems today. It is the next government that will improve on the economy. It is the next government that will make it possible for you and I to achieve what we want. it is the next government that will make women what they want to be and allow workers get what they want, and wipe out zero allocation to local government councils.

But the argument is that if you allow an administration to continue in office, it would have the opportunity and more time to improve on its achievements of the previous term.

That argument is baseless. It is like trying to use a basket to fetch water. Nigeria will not die, it is the people who die. Policies will continue and governance continues. there is no single person or government who can solve all the problems of this country. So, forget this issue of one term, two terms. If you cannot do it in four years, then you cannot do it in 40 years.

Don't you think the PDP is capable of resolving the face-off between the executive and the National Assembly?

How can you take the case to the PDP when the PDP is guilty, for not monitoring its members holding various political offices, from the local governments to the Presidency. The PDP does not monitor their activities and the party does not caution them. The party gave them so much freedom, so the PDP cannot solve a problem it started by itself. The PDP knows what has happened because the leadership has lost control of the party. Otherwise, how can a member come out in public to denounce the party, that the PDP is not disciplined, and members sit down and tolerate that kind of thing. The PDP cannot solve this problem.

So, if Obasanjo does not go for a second term, who do you predict will be the next president?

We, the people, will decide who becomes the next president. And as far as I am concerned, if rotation still has its footprints, the next president will come from Igboland. The Igbo will present a candidate and we will vote for him.

Rotation of power is democratic. There is nothing that is not rotational in your daily life. You don't eat the same food everyday, you don't wear the same clothes and you don't say the same prayer everyday. Rotation is a way of life. Since we are not the same and if we must live together, then what God has given us must be rotated. The basis of democracy is natural justice and it must be obeyed. The Hausa have taken their turn, the Yoruba are now there. The next majority tribe must have their turn and they are the Igbo, we must give them the certificate of occupancy for Aso Rock, in 2003.

When it comes to the choice of producing a candidate, do you think the Igbo are united enough, politically?

There is no group or people who are ever completely united in anything in life. Forget this blackmail propaganda. Tell me one community or area in this country that is united. When the time comes the Igbo will produce the right candidate. Afterall, is it not the Igbo who have the best, well-organised annual celebration in this country - the Igbo Day. The Igbo are united.

Do you have any particular candidate from Igboland who you think will be acceptable to the generality of Nigerians, for the post of the president, in 2003?

I cannot say names. The only identity to help you know the candidate is that the person must be a red cap chief.

There is this general apprehension regarding 2003. Some people fear that the situation may degenerate, a situation which may force the military to intervene. Apart from the military, are there no other options for correcting lapses in the polity?

If Obasanjo gets a second term, there will be no peace. There will be no peace, people will die. It is better for one man to go than for a multitude to perish. There are many ways to solve problems facing us today. They are similar to those of the people who gave us independence. They had similar problems and there were revolutions all over the place. The French, the British, America, all had their revolution. All for what? Democracy. We have not had any revolution in this country. We should look at how these countries resolved their own initial problems. What is the fuss about? Must we die for somebody. Anybody who says he will die for his country, that person is a fool because if you die for your country, the country loses you. But if you let your enemy die for his country, that is wisdom. Democracy will not kill us.

You talk of revolution in these advanced democracies, do you expect us to go through the same process?

During the French Revolution, there was bloodshed. The American Revolution, how did it end? Bloodshed. Even here in Africa, in Kenya, in South Africa, there was bloodshed. Don't we have blood to shed in Nigeria? Why are you afraid of bloodshed. If you are afraid of bloodshed then we will not get there.

Nigeria has fought a bloody civil war. The civil war was not for democracy. The civil war was for freedom and justice. When it is time to be democratic, in the true sense of the word, you either choose the ballot or the bullet. When the proper democracy comes, Nigerians will know who to fallow. In the meantime, what we have is transitional democracy, to keep Nigeria one. And, the purpose of rotation is to keep Nigeria one.